The Innerspace Station Podcast

Episode #13: Soul Centric Biz Spotlight Meet: Katie Mattson Craig

episode #13

Katie Mattson Craig



"Listen to yourself the next time you ask the question, why?"

Hello beautiful soul! Today I’m excited to share my conversation with my good friend and amazing coach and web designer Katie Mattson Craig.

Katie believes we each connect best with the world when we allow our natural selves to emerge and strive to understand our innate strengths. In 2003, she earned a BFA in Graphic Design from James Madison University, inspiring her first business: Designed For Momentum. Shortly after, she went back to school for coaching and graduated from Coach University in 2006. (Which is when she & I met on a group coaching call & we instantly clicked.)

Katie was awarded an ACC certification from the International Coach Federation in 2007, and served for three years on the board of the Charlotte Area International Coach Federation Chapter. With over a decade in business she has created 3 signature programs and her time in business has been dedicated to helping others find momentum in their lives.

Coaching is a natural fit for Katie and is an integral part of who she is. Katie works with individuals, entrepreneurs, corporations, small business owners, career shifters and more. Part of why Katie is here is to help you unearth who you are & to guide you to communicate, act and live from your natural self to find your personal momentum. Every. Day. Please enjoy my conversation with Katie Mattson Craig…

As she mentioned in the Episode, Katie recently launched The Daily Momentum Business Collective, a think tank for entrepreneurs & multi- passionate-preneurs, who are seeking a group to collaborate and help grow their businesses in an online collective space, to share ideas, and gain various levels of support including 1on1 & group coaching from Katie.

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What We're Exploring

on this episode, we're talking about:
  • How Katie got started as a coach.

  • How coaching can help you up-level to the next stage of your life.

  • What can hold you back from reaching your goals.

  • Katie's newest program The Collective.

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Audio Transcript

Welcome to the Cosmic Innerspace podcast. I’m Kammie K interspace surfer and cosmic creator at Are you ready to launch a business? Expand your cosmic consciousness, amp your intuition, or simply celebrate the everyday messiness of being human. Then the Cosmic Innerspace podcast is for you. Let’s dive into the show.

I’m excited to share my conversation with my fabulous friend and amazing coach and web designer. Katie Mattson Craig. Katie believes we each connect best with the world when we allow our natural selves to merge and strive to understand our innate strengths. In 2003, she earned a BFA in graphic design from James Madison university, inspiring her first business Designed for Momentum, shortly after she went back to school for coaching and graduated from Coach University in 2006, which is when she and I met on a group coaching call and we instantly clicked. Katie was awarded an ACC certification from the international coach Federation in 2007 and served for three years on the board of the Charlotte area, international coach Federation chapter with over a decade in business, she has created three signature programs and her time and business has been dedicated to helping others find momentum in their lives.

Coaching is a natural fit for Katie and is an integral part of who she is. Katie works with individuals, entrepreneurs, corporations, small business owners, career shifters, and more. Part of why Katie is here is to help you unearth who you are and to guide you to communicate act and live from your own natural self, to find your personal momentum every day.

Please enjoy my conversation with Katie Mattson Craig. I was going to say good morning, but it’s morning for me and already noon for you. 

Katie: It is definitely noon for me halfway through my day already. 

KammieK: I know, I think that’s the funny thing to me about time zones and differences is like you’re in a whole different zone and part of your day than I am, you’ve been moving along.

I’m still just while I don’t have coffee, because I didn’t want to be over-caffeinated so I have to be guarded and I have my water. What are you saying hydrated with today? 

Katie: Just water, just in my lovely, my favorite mug. 

KammieK: In your brand. So I was thinking about. Ooh, I wish I could show you this thing, but I can’t because it’s a gift for someone, but I had a custom.

So I don’t know if you’ve seen any of the things on Instagram. I’ve been posting with these kind of mantra art. They’re sort of like collage ish type mantra arts. Anyway, I’m going to turn those into an Oracle deck, but I also sampled on a coffee mug for a friend. I won’t name her gift and she listens to the podcast.

So cute. It looks so good. I’m like, oh my God. I might have to actually make these some merch and make these available. There’s some different ways to do that now. 

Katie: Yeah. I just ordered a a trucker hat that has momentum on it. And then this is my favorite coffee mug. I dunno. It just whatever I’m drinking, I just wanted it in a mug.

Like there’s something about mug that make me really happy. 

KammieK: This one is a fave of mine. I love the, I don’t know if you can see it because this handle, I don’t know what it is about this, my friend, Karen, shout out to Karen. She was on, oh my God. Episode two or three early on. Maybe I don’t even know. Wait early. Anyway, she got this from a years ago when we worked at ASU.

So I love the mugs. Another thing I love is I don’t know if you’ve seen this company mantra. 

The do custom mugs for you. And she does, she has a couple different fonts that are really cool. She has a cursive font, and then she has like a big, bold font and her mantras are good. 

Yes. I definitely think that there’s many of those in my future. Yeah. Anyway, we got kind of derailed there. 

Katie: We always have so much to say. 

KammieK: Well, thank you for being here. I wanted to share your genius on the podcast. And so I’ll share with the listeners. Katie and I met. I don’t know was it oh, five or oh six? 

Katie: I think it had to have been oh four or oh five. 

KammieK: Oh yeah. I’d never remember when I got started. So we met in coach training at coach U was a virtual via phone. We couldn’t even see each other.

Katie: No, there was no zoom. There was no Google hangout, nothing. 

KammieK: Oh, and I think the fascinating thing about that for me, that I still remember for that experience is how connected we could still feel each other’s energy.

And we had people from all over the world in some of those courses. It was actually an amazing experience. And so, yeah. So part of that is they tell you to buddy up.

Katie: Yup. And me and I was like, I want that girl in the virtual dark room where we couldn’t even see each other. I loved it. Cause we, they do call on us.

So like we each got an opportunity to share and there was just something about the way that you always showed up. And I’ve always said this, like, you were such a word Smith from the very beginning on how you describe things you, and it’s funny. I know we’re going to talk about today. You painted pictures for me, which is ironic, right.

Which we’ll talk about, but it’s the space of like, I could just feel you and what you brought to the table and you had this like very effervescent personality and the vibrancy in which you talked. I was like, I that’s my buddy, like, I want to be that girl’s buddy. So then I stopped you a little bit to make sure that we got paired up.

KammieK: You’re like, so, Hey, so, Hey it’s funny. Cause I don’t remember exactly how that transpired, but what I do remember is the amazing balance of what you bring to the table because you have such a grounded energy, which makes sense. Also, in the context of when I met you, you were very actively rock climbing.

So I remember being like this chicks up bad-ass she climbed big MFN rocks and I don’t do those things. And so there, there was an earthiness to your energy. So I think our yin yangs were pinging each other back in. 

Katie: Yeah, I think so. I’m so glad. Cause it’s turned into such a beautiful friendship over the years.

It’s been so fascinating to watch how our lives and our careers and our choices have kind of paralleled each other over the years and the struggles and the challenges, and then that big wins and it just it’s been, so I dunno, it’s enriched my life. Like it’s been a blessing for me to know you and to be friends with you and to just be in each other’s sphere all these years.

I’m so glad it turned into, I mean, we’ve been friends for over a decade now. That’s amazing. 

KammieK: Yeah. Right. Well even 15 to almost two decades and ditto all the same right. Back at you and for those initial reasons and so many others, right. The grounded-ness and always like, and we’ve both been in both of those spaces where it’s like, you’re elevated and I’m like, oh shit, storm Rana.

And like, you know, the Teeter tottering of like being an opposite spaces as well as some parallel spaces Yeah, and then drifting and then coming back together. I love that about and… 

Katie: showing up at the same beach on a different coast as you at the same time, the same weekend. So we’re just, we just grabbed, we just, it would have happened no matter what, we just gravitate toward each other.

KammieK: I know. I love, I just love all the beauty of that. I also love that there’s been like on a friendship rant for a second. I love that. There’s never been an expectation or a I don’t know. I guess you could call it codependent, but there’s never been a like, oh, I didn’t hear, you know, we’ve gone long, long periods of time where we weren’t connecting or communicating.

And our lives were just busy in different ways. And I think that’s true long lasting sustainable friendship and that’s awesome. Unconditional. 

Yeah. Whoop. You guys can’t see, but we’re making hearts. We’re making hearts on zoom to each other. Everything just feels so warm and yummy right now. I’m just loving that we’re starting off in this like mutual admiration and love Fest.

All right. Well, we’ll stop. So people don’t get gross out and they’re like, okay get to chop, chop lady, the point, people, some stuff. Well, maybe just share. Cause I like to, with with my amazing guests, like yourself who have so many different things to offer, I love to go back and give context and kind of walk us through a little bit of like where you grew up and where did you go to school and what you study and what were you into?

And it’s always so fascinating. Cause I feel like there’s threads early on and yet there’s corkscrews and loop de loops and twists and turns. So I want to hear some plot twists to. 

Katie: Always. Primarily outside of Washington DC. My father was in the military and ended up stationed at the Pentagon and his later in his career.

KammieK: I didn’t know he was at the Pentagon. 

Katie: Oh no, we’ve ever talked about that. 

KammieK: We ever did see I’m learning new stuff already. 

Katie: So yeah, I, you know, and I had a fairly normal run of the mill childhood. And yet I would say, as I got into college realized how very introverted and like sort of inexperienced life experience I had.

And so when I went to college, it was like a total culture shock for me. And then I started exploring, you know, like, well, what are things that I would enjoy doing? So that’s where rock climbing entered into my life. And I had a couple of extra credits at school and I was like, I don’t know what classes I want to take, but I could take anything.

And I was like, well, what’s this climbing class. That sounds fun.

KammieK: So you actually started climbing in college? 

Katie: I did. Yup. Yup. My very last year I took a climbing class and I would say that just rock climbing in general was like my first massive pivot in my life. And I graduated with a degree in graphic design.

So when I went to college, even, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I was undeclared had no idea. And then after my first year decided, okay, graphic design is interesting. It’s something that interests me the most right now, but I always sort of deep down, like in my intuition center knew that that wasn’t, the thing for me that there was more than I was meant to do, but I didn’t know what that was yet. And so I was very open and just sort of let’s follow what we know. 

KammieK: Jack, a little, where did you go? And then what was it about graphic design that initially was like tugging at you? 

Katie: Right. So I was I went to Virginia tech my first year and very, very much in that space of no idea what I want to do, but they have a huge array of opportunity. And so I’ll figure it out as I go. Finally kind of came out of my shell there. After about six months, started to meet people, started to feel really at home. And then a neighbor of mine back home was doing graphic design. And so I would like watch them work.

They worked out of their home. They had a studio in their home and so I watched them work. I got, you know, I picked up on a few things. I started exploring what that would look like. I liked the creativity of it a lot. There was, I always had a very creative edge to myself, but and it was a way that I expressed myself, but I just didn’t know graphic design was such a thing. Cause this was in 2003. I graduated in 2003. So this was like 99, 2000. When I was exploring it. So graphic design was like not a huge thing back then. It was, yeah. It was there. I’m dating myself a little bit, but that’s okay. And so I thought, okay, well, I’ll go talk to my guidance counselor at Virginia tech and see what’s available for me.

They had nothing. 

KammieK: Forgive me. Is Virginia tech most isn’t like a really engineering school, is it? Yes. Okay. I wanted to make sure I have that right in my head. So you were in a very different part of, you know, studies. Yeah. 

Katie: Right, exactly. And so, and also school was always very difficult for me. Like, I am a smart person, but my grades were always very mediocre.

And so it was very hard for me to take tests to you know, write papers. It just something about the memorization didn’t sit well with me. And so I always had a hard time and then I ended up. Talking to James Madison university. I talked to their admissions. I talked to them about their art program.

What would that look like? I wanted to do graphic design specifically because I’m a terrible artist. My mother is an amazing artist. My brother is an amazing artist. I am not an amazing artist, but it was in art program. So I was like, I don’t know how this is going to go. And so talk to them. And he said, well, the gentleman I talked to said, well, you’ve got a couple of options.

He said, you know, you can bring your portfolio in. We have an art review day. And if, of course, if we accept you, then you know, we’ll invite you to apply for the program. And I said, okay, well, there’s one problem. I don’t have a portfolio. I’ve never taken an art class in my life. And he said, well, that’s going to be a problem.

He said, there’s one other way and it’s totally up to you. But there is a loophole right now. You can check the art box and if nobody notices, you’ll be admitted. So this was probably the very first time in my life that I thought, well, if the universe wants me to go into graphic design and become an art major, this is how it has to happen.

There’s no other way. Aside from me taking art classes, you know, I still have to transfer somewhere, but taking art classes and writing in that way through a portfolio review. And it was the very last year that they were not requiring an art review. And so I checked the box. I submitted the application lo and behold, get my acceptance letter off to JMU I go, so James Madison university spent my last three years there had just a beautiful group of friends that came out of that art major. And my classes still was a terrible, like pen to paper artist. Couldn’t paint. Couldn’t draw just my, I remember my drawing two teacher coming up behind me when we were doing a portrait one time and he said, What is your major again?

KammieK: What are you, how did you get it?

Katie: And I said, graphic design and he said, that’s computers. Right? And I said, yeah. And he goes, okay. He let me be, I mean, it was bad. He was warranted. It was bad. Still can’t draw. Anyway, get through four years of art school emphasis in graphic design totally loved my graphic design classes, but I really excelled being able to be artistic.

Do these projects, express myself in that way, we didn’t have exams, we didn’t have quizzes. It wasn’t like that. You know? And so that, that style of learning really, really worked with my mind and the way that I learn and I had a blast, I loved it. And so when I graduated, so that pair this with my rock climbing, both of those experiences helped me express myself so much from this very introverted can’t speak, can’t talk literally, almost don’t have a voice. People couldn’t hear me when I spoke to this person who, you know, fast forward five or 10 years, has started a business and I’ll get there. And it’s just the second, but like, and then it has a public voice. It was a very, very transformative five to 10 years.

And it all started with those two choices that I made. When I got out of school, I started with a very small graphic design firm. And at that time, this is about when you and I met I knew I was not interested in staying in graphic design long-term necessarily. I was in that space and I’m sure a lot of your listeners can relate to this.

I was in a career in a team that I loved, but the work was like sucking my soul, and I thought about it for a while.

KammieK: What about the work was draining? 

Katie: Yeah. So one, it was very monotonous. Like we were doing healthcare marketing, so there were very specific colors, very specific fonts. It was very, it got to a point where it was very templative.

There wasn’t a whole lot of creative capability in the work that we were doing. It was also fairly fast paced. And just the way that my brain works. And I’ve always said this about myself as a graphic designer. I don’t see a vision for what I want to create and then create it. I have to take the title that you want, the content that you want, the photos that you want and put them on the page and move them until they work for me visually.

And I’ll create something amazing, but it has always felt like a backwards way of doing things to me. So my vision and the way that I visualize has always been very, very different. And so to do it that way. Felt like work all the time and it wasn’t this like amazing creative expression that I feel like so many artists have when they create it was like pushing and pulling and maneuvering until I got it where I wanted it.

And it was always very exciting. The end result when I got it there, but it took a while. And so I started exploring what else could there be for me? And I started exploring the different avenues of healing arts, so things like massage and acupuncture and they drop it. The things that I enjoyed participating in, I had a passion for, I really believed in, and as I explored those different healing arts, I realized, you know what?

I really like getting massages. I like going to an acupuncturist. I totally respect and love my naturopathic doctor, but I don’t want to be those things. I don’t want to be the person delivering that information. 

KammieK: Was there any one modality that like pulled you into that more? Like, did someone were you searching for something, did you accidentally stumble onto something?

Did you just have an intuitive hit, like, oh, I’m going to go to this acupuncturist. And like, then that opened the door was, do you remember the kind of inception into some of those, some of that world? 

Katie: It’s such a good question. It I would say at that point in my life, it was a mixture of intuition. And also for a long time, my mom is very intuitive and she, when I was very young, used to tell me about visions that my grandmother would have.

And she, and I would have interesting things happen that were very synchronistic. Thoughts that we would have or experiences that we would have. And she really encouraged that side of me. And so even when I was little, I had books on your astrological signs and I had books on different like Celtic signs and things.

Like, I just, I was fascinated in all of that and she encouraged that within me. So that’s something I had always had is a part of me. So when I was experiencing, and I’d never been, it’s funny because I was doing healthcare marketing. Right. But I was never super into traditional healthcare. Like we didn’t go to the doctor.

My mom was a very stubborn woman as well. And so unless we were like bleeding from the head, we really didn’t go to it, sort of suck it up and you’ll be fine. So I learned very early on my body had the ability to heal itself. At that point in time, I think just a mixture of both her guidance. And then also my intuitive hit drove me into more of the healing arts and caring for myself in that way versus traditional medicine and prescriptions and medication.

And but I found that while I enjoyed those things, while I really believed in them that worked well for me, but it wasn’t what I wanted to do. 

And so at that point I started wondering, well, what else is out there? And I created actually a process that I used in my career coaching for many years that starts to pull and tug at those threads and starts to see kind of what’s the golden thread that runs through everything in terms of interests.

And then I started opening those doors. And so for me, that golden thread was healing. It was bringing more peace and less stress to people’s lives. Cause I felt like with graphic design, we were constantly going through revisions. We were pushing things. We were pulling things. We were talking to printers.

We were negotiating, you know, like all of these things were happening and it was fast paced and I felt stressed. My clients felt stressed until the project was done and then we’d start it all over again. It was a brand new process. Yeah. And so in doing that and exploring that I was like, I want to do something that brings more peace to people’s lives and less stress.

And within probably a month or two of that and identifying this healing arts, you know, is there something I can do to create change in that space and to bring my unique skill set into that space? I found that my boss had decided he wanted us to have continuing education. And so he started to bring experts in that we could go to workshops and things like that.

So he said, well, I’ve signed you up for this workshop. It’s with a coach who specializes in graphic design. And I thought, okay, sure. When I was on this workshop, I was so much more interested in how she got to deliver the information that she was delivering. Way more interested in that than how it applied to my job and what I could do with it.

Right. So I started exploring coaching. So this is what happens when we start to pull at these threads in our life, right? Like, oh, that’s interesting. I’m going to follow that. You know, it’s a little breadcrumb trail and I follow that, see what doors it opens. So then I started to exploring coaching and realizing this, cause I had thought about therapy as well, but I didn’t really want to go into people’s past and the trauma outside of it.

 Yeah. And so I started to explore coaching. I hired a coach. My coach encouraged me to go to Coach U, you and I met there. And then before I knew it, like literally, and I’m not even exaggerating this before I knew. I had a business plan written up and I’m handing in my notice with my boss. And I couldn’t even believe I was thinking about starting a business because that was not the initial intention.

The initial intention was, I want to learn these skills to better myself and maybe like my job a little more, you know, maybe figure out what I want to do next, but it was not to start a coaching business. 

KammieK: I remember, I remember those days, like, yes I do. I remember you’re like, you were so freaked out. Like, I gotta do this, I gotta do this.

But how, what? And with, yeah, I remember you just step into it. Yeah. And I do wanna, I do want to sidebar say how transformational that program was also. So I think sometimes, you know, people think, oh, I’ve read a couple of books and I’ve done that. And I put out sometimes like, do the fucking work, you know, hashtag fucking work.

We did such deep, intense work in that program because basically we go through what we would put a client through. You know, you learn all, you don’t only learn the skills of a coach. You go through the process of being coached basically by every instructor in the program and buddies. I just remember I had you as my buddy in that program.

And I had my friend call as my buddy in coach Mary’s program, which I was in for a year. I don’t even know if it overlapped or after coach you. I, my timelines are all shifty sobbing and ugly, crying on the phone to each other and be like, woo. Because it just pulls up all that like unconscious achiness and shadow work and you know, all these terms that people flying around, like, it’s just, you know, I’ll just do some shadow work and I’m like, do you know what shadow work really?

Do you know that it’s a lifelong process? It’s just not like a band-aid you put on something and it’s all good. I did some shadow work today and it’s all good. It’s like, it gets real ugly before, before it gets. Yes. It’s often shined and polished and, you know, extracted from us. So, yeah, I just I just, again, back to our friendship and being so grateful for you holding that space for me in that time period, because I, that, that was a huge dark night of the soul for me.

Like that time period, I was processing and going through so much. And I remember, so at that point I was working at Lindenwood and I was in a full-time role, but then I transitioned into a teaching role during those years and was building my coaching business, passion meets purpose at the time. And I remember that because there’s a PR every it’s different for everyone, right.

But it’s like, there’s kind of that point where you let have let go of this trapeze and you haven’t grabbed the other one yet. And your in free fall. And I remember a little bit being like, I’m either losing my mind or this is upleveling. And now that I’ve been through it multiple times and I’m going through it again, right.

You’re like, oh, okay. This isn’t and you actually are losing, you’re losing your old self. You’re losing your old mind, your old beliefs, your old way of being. And there’s also a bit of a mourning process in that. So I think sometimes you and I both right on the face are very positive people. We’re very, You know, bright.

And so sometimes people I think can confuse that. I know for myself, especially terms like toxic positivity. Sometimes I think people throw around not necessarily at me, but I know that’s like a movement and I just wanted to kind of sit there for a moment and share that we have both, you know, gone through the darkest mucky muck of all of our stuff and sorting through it.

And it’s it’s an iteration process. It’s not one of our cooked yeah. Where you think you have, oh, I tackled that dragon. And then it’s like, then a year, two years, five years later, it shows back up and you’re like, what the F are you doing here? I thought we dealt with this way back then. And it’s like, I’m back girl.

What’s up?

Katie: Yeah. I had a teacher one time. I think I was in a workshop and she explained this the best that I’ve ever heard anybody in like the simplest terms. She said. Listen to yourself the next time you ask the question, why? Because essentially what’s happening is every time you say, I don’t understand why this happened, why did this happen this way?

Why is this happening to me? Why is this happening again? The universe is saying, oh, I’m sorry. You didn’t understand. Let me give it to you again. 

KammieK: Right? You needed clarification. Yeah. Yes. 

Katie: Yes. It’s like, oh, snap here because you’re right. I mean, we had to do in order to ever step forward as a coach and lead other people, you have to go through your own stuff.

And I remember one of our instructors, even back then saying some days you’re two steps ahead of your clients. And some days you’re three years ahead of them. Totally depends. But we’re all human. And that’s one of the imposter syndrome that I think coaches go through too is, you know, well, who am I to teach these things because I’m just going through it or I’ve just dealt with it or I’m still going through it or it’s coming back.

You know, I mean, I just launched something big and new and my business and the imposter syndrome came up big for me. I was ready to like shut the whole business down and walk away from it. That felt so much easier than putting this thing out into the world and thing. Isn’t that big? It’s like an extension of what I’ve already been doing, but it was so scary.

And I had to sit in that space. I had to listen to the inner dialogue. I had to meet my inner critic. Face-to-face so many days, so many days and sit with it until I could slowly break it up and get it to start dissolving. And it’s in those moments that I always for myself, and I always tell my clients, pay attention to what you’re experiencing, because if you’re going to teach this, you have to know what this feels like.

You have to go through it yourself so that you can then remember when your clients are in that space and you can then teach them how to step through it ,uncomfortable.

KammieK: I know. And that’s one thing to, I guess, also share, cause I, you know, part of my intention with this podcast is that it’s a portal in and of itself to expose people to different modalities and different things and so. I’ll save the conversation between the difference between counseling and coaching. And we both experienced it because I started a counseling program and I was the class that I took on multiple personalities. And I was like, I’m out. It was so intense. And the things that this amazing instructor had dealt with, he had been a community college therapist for the majority of his career.

And in the community college, if you take one credit, you get access to that, which is an amazing resource. And just the, the stuff that he shared with us, I was just like, I don’t have the capacity for this. And I’m amazed and astounded that there are these wonderful people that, that are in that world.

I knew kind of like you, for me, it was more going forward. Yeah. Anyway. 

Katie: Yeah. And that’s where the positivity comes in, right? It’s like you as coaches, if you choose to enter into a coaching profession, you want to move forward with your clients. And just to clarify what you’re saying there, it’s not about moving backwards into their trauma or into what kept them stuck therapists do an amazing job with that. It’s about moving forward. And so how many times have you said to yourself, I know what I’m supposed to be doing. I know how I’m supposed to be thinking, I know how I’m supposed to be handling this scenario, but it’s hard to step into it sometimes.

And so as coaches, you know? Yes. And I totally understand what you’re saying about this, like toxic positivity movement, all of these things there, there is that space. And yet when you’ve studied the mindset, when you’ve studied, what happens in our brain chemistry to actually turn positivity into reality, it’s a weird balance to strike because it’s not always a fake it till you make it, but sometimes. It starts there, like sometime. And so yeah, it, there is, there’s a lot to unpack. 

There can, yeah, that’s a whole different scene. 

KammieK: Yeah. That’s like living from the wish fulfilled and Florence, Scovel, Shinn and all the attraction stuff. And yeah, we won’t go down that train. The other thought that I had, and I had kind of spaced for a second and forgot it was, you know, there, there are sometimes questions people will say, do you need to hire a coach who has a certification or a coach who doesn’t have a certification?

My thoughts on that are, so I went through the whole entire 75 hours of training from Coach U, but I didn’t actually get the official piece of paper because I didn’t capture those hours. And then do the things that you have to do to actually get the document. Right. So I mean, I guess technically it’s not official, but I went through all of the training, right.

There are lots of people out there calling themselves coaches who don’t have any training. And I just want to encourage people to use their discernment, right? Like make sure you check out people’s testimonials. If you need to talk to someone that they’ve worked with, not everything on a marketing or a sales page is honest and true.

Yeah, I would just make sure to vet the person that you’re considering working with. And I don’t necessarily think people have to gone through coach training. Like there’s, especially in like business coaching. Like if you ran a multimillion dollar business, like clearly you’ve got the skillset, you know, if you were successful in what you did in whatever your role was from that perspective.

But there are foundational fundamental pieces that I think sometimes people who have not gone through some sort of training or done the work themselves and it’s, you know, it’s clear whether someone has or hasn’t. So I think there’s a bit of intuition at play and also doing your due diligence in vetting people that you want to pay money to because not everyone has pure intention.

Katie: Right. 

Well, listen to your intuition. Don’t take the first person that you come across. Like I always tell people, you know, they’re like no offense, but I am going to talk to some other coaches I’m like, great, please, please talk to other coaches. Like, I want you to pick a person who feels the most aligned for you and if that’s me wonderful.

And if it’s somebody else great.

KammieK: And there’s different coaches for different periods of your life and different coaches for different things, you know, I’m so fortunate that I have like a whole circle of people who do different parts of coaching. And I’m like, I need to book two hours. Let’s do this. You know, like when I’ve done that multiple times, here in there and throughout for different reasons and ways.

And so yeah, just, there’s not a one size fits all and just be clear on, you know, what you’re trying to, what your outcome is that you’re trying to achieve in working with or taking someone’s program or taking a course even taking some of the lower price pointed courses or digital downloads, free downloads, there’s a lot of value and a lot of free downloads.

So kind of, you know, testing the waters a bit with the people, I guess that’s all I wanted to say. 

Katie: Yeah, well definitely. And I think too, that’s anything in life, right? Like we, I will tell you. And so, just very quick background. I run two businesses right there and designed for momentum, which is a small print and web design firm.

And I also run momentum coaching where I do coaching for my clients. Right now, I’m focused on business clients. That’s all I’m taking at the moment, but I did used to do career and life coaching for many years. The number one thing that I hear from my career coaching clients was always, I don’t know what I want to do because I always just took the next thing that came along.

KammieK: Right. 

Katie: So when we talk about creating a vision for your. When we talk about understanding what your vision is sometimes always not even sometimes. Let me take that back. Always take some time every day, for a little while, to write out what do I want for my. It’s the number one thing we don’t think about.

And it’s the number one thing we have control over. 

KammieK: Yeah. Well, and so to do a middle of the podcast plug, that’s why I’m creating inner space camp, which is going to launch in June. So four weeks from now, which is insane to think that’s happening, it’s stepping into it. I know this is the first iteration of it, but it’s finally, I was finally like, I’ve got to harness these things, because between the career coaching that I did for many years and the life coaching and some of the business and personal branding coaching and the entrepreneurial thing, like, I feel like I have this really weird mix of those things. And it really is what you were saying. It’s like those I call them interspace best practices.

If you aren’t aligned from there then you’re not going to be clear on the career path or what kind of business do you want to launch, or even if you’re are a business owner, like I have a client right now, she’s got an amazing business and it’s already, you know, got legs and it’s doing well, but she’s at that other point where different shiny objects are showing up for her.

And she’s like, what about this path? And I was like, I need you to walk me back like three steps and help me understand. And so I started asking questions cause she originally hired me to help her with like speaking and polishing story and storytelling and like getting this whole other revenue stream going for her business.

And I was. What is the thing you really, really want to be doing? And she was like this, and it was totally not related to speaking and doing all this stuff. And I was like, then why are you going to go down that rabbit hole when you need to first open up more time and spaciousness to do the number one thing you said you wanted to do that could come later.

And that’s definitely something that would be a great add on, and it makes sense and it fits for you and it fits for your business, but let’s go back. And so she was like, oh my God, Thank you. Thank you. I just like hit the pause button. I was like, mm let’s have a little time out here. Let’s go back. And so I was like, oh my God, this work is so critical.

And it starts with yourself as an individual, as an individual contributor at your job as an individual who might own a business as a partner, in a relationship as a parent, right? Like if you’re not aligned here and clear on vision intention, you know, core values, like most people don’t even know what their core values are.

And I’m like, how are you building then you’re living by default. Like we all have a default. And my default. That’s the thing that, you know, the default is there. If I backslide and I’m like, oh, that’s why I have these practices in place because you know, one of mine was you know, buying stuff I didn’t need and putting it on a credit card and then having credit card debt, or then returning it the next weekend, because I don’t need this bag of stuff I just bought because I was in an unconscious moment and felt triggered.

And I was like, let’s go shop, you know, feel better for a second. And then I was like, looking at my statements, going, wow, I could use that money for something else. So we all have the default modes. And if we don’t have those things in alignment, Then you’re just building a house of cards, essentially, whether it’s a business or a relationship or a career, you know?

Yeah. So I feel like that’s a perfect segue to get a little bit more into the vision and the designing your life. And maybe talk a little bit about how you have these two businesses and how the overlap of the design and the vision, because you’re doing, you know, with your design clients, there’s the visual piece.

Right. We talked about the thing that we’re going to share about the way you see things, because I didn’t know this about you and you didn’t know this about you for how long, let’s just get into that. 

Katie: Yeah. Yeah. So this is this is something that I recognized about myself recently. A friend brought it to my attention.

So I’ve thought a little bit ago, like there has always been this gap in my brain that I felt like. I didn’t fit into your traditional art major. I didn’t fit into your traditional graphic designer. I didn’t fit into your traditional student enroll because I couldn’t take quizzes or tests. I wasn’t, I didn’t have the memory capacity.

I understood those things. I knew those things, but it wasn’t something I could pull up like a vision in my brain. I couldn’t see the page. It could, you know, it didn’t have any kind of photographic memory period. And so I had that piece then with graphic design, I had to like move things around. I would talk to my, my fellow students.

And I would say, you know what, tell me your process. And they’d be like, oh, I have this amazing vision for what I want it to be. I think about all the things that do some research. And then I create it from what I see in my brain. And I was like, weird. I don’t do that.

And then, so I ended up when I left my graphic design job and started my coaching business, I ended up freelancing with graphic design. And started my own business as a graphic designer and simultaneously started the coaching business. And then what ended up happening after like two to three years is those two kind of merged together.

So I focused on holistic businesses cause I was like, at least if I can help small businesses to have a bigger reach, to grow bigger, to understand them, marketing, to understand some of the simple tools that they can do to have a bigger reach, then that’s going to be amazing because I can help your acupuncturist, your massage therapists, your naturopaths at this.

Oh my gosh. I keep saying that naturopathic doctors to expand their reach, to reach more people with the information that they have, because there’s so much unknown about it. So many people don’t know that’s an option for them versus traditional medicine. So I was like, great. This is a place I can actually create a difference.

And I don’t have to do the thing. Right. Like I can help them grow their thing. So that was really exciting for me. And then the business coaching came into play really several years later, once I did feel to your point earlier about, you know, hiring a business coach and you know, what kind of experience do your coaches have?

Once I felt like I had the experience to actually teach that came about many, many years later. Right. I could say, okay, now I feel like I can teach these small businesses and things about business and marketing. It was the same things I would teach my design clients. Right? So those two began to intersect.

Clients would either hire me for business coaching and then hire us, my, my team for their marketing, or they would hire us for marketing and realize, okay, I need to go a bit deeper into my branding and hire me for business coaching. So those two things began to feed each other. What I discovered about myself is that there is this term called afantasia and afantasia is the lack of ability to see with your mind’s eye. And so essentially when you sit down to meditate or when my fellow students would sit down to visualize what they wanted to create, you can, if you’re in an, a guided meditation and somebody tells you to visualize a purple cow, you can visualize a purple cow.

You’ll put it in its field. You’ll see it through the fence. Maybe you walk up to it. 

KammieK: I can see it right now, right? 

Katie: Yeah. I see nothing. 

Now theoretically, because I have seen pictures of purple cows online. I can see those pictures in my mind. And some people can’t even do that. So I’m a little bit of a hybrid when it comes to this term, I can see things that I can conceptualize because I’ve seen evidence of them somewhere.

Some people can’t see anything at all, and this can be something that you’re born with. It affects a very small amount of the population actually, and people have varying degrees of it. So some people that are listening may actually have varying degrees, but most people, it’s a very, very, very tiny percentage of the population that has zero minds eye.

 So as I started researching this more, cause I was like, that’s strange because that makes so much sense with how I have gone about my whole life and configuring what I wanted out of my life and understanding it and how I work with my coaching programs and how I’ve created designs all these years, you know, without being able to visualize isn’t that crazy like, well, no wonder I always felt like I was pushing instead of creating. And so as I have researched this, as I have looked into it more and more, I realized some people are born with this and some people have it because of a brain injury or a trauma of some sort. So mine, I would say I was most likely born where that, I mean, maybe it had a trauma or something early, early on.

I have no idea. I don’t think I had anything major like that, but I guess it’s possible. But as far as I can remember, this has been a thing for me. And so I started looking at it though from a different lens of how has this actually helped me in my business when it came to creating the life that I wanted and creating the business that I wanted.

And I realized for me, it’s actually become a bit of a superpower because when my clients come to me and a lot of times this happens with entrepreneurs. We are entrepreneurs because we have a million ideas. We love our ideas. We love a good idea. 

KammieK: So relation is one of my strengths. So I hear you. 

Katie: Thank you.

Yeah. So just like you were saying with your client who was like, oh, I’ll be shiny opportunities. Right. That’s what we do. And it’s not just entrepreneurs. I just tend to work with entrepreneurs most often. But when we have all of those little shiny ideas, Ooh, you know, maybe I can do this. Maybe I can do that.

Or maybe I could take what I’m doing and do this, this and this with it. We distract ourselves at the end of the day. And what happens is we spread our energy so thin. That we can’t actually access all of those different ideas that we have and follow through with them because our energy becomes spread so thin.

So what I tend to do with my clients is I go, okay, let’s take it, take all of that. We’re going to write it down. So everything with me, I have always said, I’m a very visual person, but I don’t mean up in my head. I have to see things. I have to put them on paper. I have to put them on my computer. I have to have that puzzle.

Give me all the puzzle pieces and I’m going to make sense of it for you. So when I work with my clients, a lot of times what I’m doing is I’m saying, okay, give me all the puzzle pieces. I’m writing them all out and then I’m prioritizing them. And I’m helping them to take all of those pieces and put them into alignment and saying, okay, here’s where we’re going to start.

And now you have a focus. Now go do that thing. Then we’re going to go to the next one. Then the next one, all of these other ideas are still here for you. They’re safe. They’re waiting. But you’re focusing your energy needs to be in one place or else you’re doing yourself a disservice because you’re putting your energy in 14 places when really there’s one thing you want, right?

KammieK: Yes. So it’s fascinating from so many perspectives. One, when you say write it down, do you mean a list? Is it like bulleted list for you? How does that look for you? Because well, I’ll share how it looks for me after you tell me how it looks for you. So when you say write it down, what does that look like?

Katie: Okay. So I love a good list. That’s like my most favorite thing in the world. 

KammieK: Are you a hand writer on paper? Are you a Google doc person where you putting this down? 

Katie: Yes. Handwriting person. And then I found I had 18 journals and they were all over the place and I didn’t know where any of my lists were and it made me crazy.

So now I use softwares like ASANA, things like that, that I can actually put things into and create lists. But I did just find, and I’ll share this with you as a resource that maybe, you know about, maybe you don’t, maybe your readers know about actually I have it sitting right here. Let me see if I can find a blank page because nobody needs to see the chicken scratch here.

Here we go. Have you ever heard of rocket book? 

KammieK: No!

Katie: Best tool ever. Shameless plug for this company. I have no affiliation with them. I just find them amazing. So rocket book comes in different sizes. They have like your tiny spiral notebook. They’ve got this one, which I love, cause it’s like a five by seven and then they have eight half by 11 and larger and they have note cards as well.

So it’s great for school. It’s basically a dry erase board. So you write in it. Whatever you want to take your notes on and then down here you can probably not really see it. Yeah, well, yes. And there’s these teeny tiny doesn’t matter, there’s these teeny tiny little icons. You can assign these icons to different places so I can scan this in, on my phone, on their app and send it to Dropbox in a folder.

Oh, I can send it to ASANA I can send it to Google drive. I can send it wherever I want it to go.

KammieK: It’s rocket books?

Katie: Rocket book. Yep. So then I just wipe it clean with a wet rag done and reuse. I love it. So now notes go into here and then I can erase them once I’ve done them or they’re safe. I can also erase the pen.

So like the pen itself has an eraser on it. So if I do something, I can erase it and put something new on. I just, I love it. So it gives me that pen to paper feel, which is like near and dear to my heart, but I don’t have 18 million journals. I just have one. 

KammieK: I have, yeah, I have lots of journals. So a couple things.

One why that is so interesting is because, and I don’t think we, I don’t think he and I talked about it when I had my friend, Jerry, who’s a hypnotherapist and I have had some incredible hypnotherapy sessions with him. That’s a technique that he uses is the whiteboard. So you write, you visualize writing the thing on the whiteboard, and then you see yourself like making it go away and it’s like dissolved, gone.

It’s in the ethers that you see the little dust kind of just float away. 

Yes. I see the dust slip away, visualize the dust floating away. So it’s kind of magic in that way, cause it’s a subconscious mind hack. And then for me with that stuff, I do lists and mind-mapping.

Katie: I love my mind-mapping.

KammieK: Cause I need to see the bubbles for me. That’s how I in my mind’s eye, because I do see in my mind’s eye of like have clairvoyant stuff, vision, but also I think that’s where the strategic piece for me comes in really hot too, is because I can see connections. And it is like that, like, it’s like a dashboard just pops up and there’s like, the central thing is in the middle.

And then I see all these little things and I’m like, but I didn’t think other, I didn’t even think to think other people don’t see like that. Like I, I think even in business, in, at work, like I’m like how I come natural to you and people can’t say that. Yeah. I’m like, how do you not see those things are connected?

And like, if you just like pulled them together, they would like flow so much better. And so I’m not. I’m more of a big picture person. I know some people are really gifted at pulling the legs down on it then and bringing that, which is why I love having those partners and people in my life as well that I can say, here’s my big vision.

Here’s all my buckets. And then they’re able to help me break those buckets, pull the legs down and then put the action lists together. Like first, this, this, this, this, and then you’re like a process doc or something like that. Cause that makes me want to poke my eyes out spreadsheets and process docs.

I’m like, no, I know they’re important because you can’t achieve all these things. If you don’t have the process docs and the spreadsheets. Right. But that’s not my gift. So back to the vision piece, it’s just fascinating. And to think that I am now this far along in my own career and my own life and coaching clients, and now you have gifted me with like, remember not everyone when we say vision sees it that same way.

And of course they don’t. You know, I think just when you’re sick, when you think visualize, like you said, with meditation and the purple cow, like it’s always yeah. Go into you know, visualize yourself in a garden and see a deer right on the bench and, you know, And an animal will come along.

What is the animal? And you’re like, I don’t know. Cause I seen animal. 

Katie: So I’m like, I don’t know. It’s nighttime in my vision.

KammieK: It’s just dark, it’s dark in here. So, so that’s so fascinating. And I feel like the gift of us having this conversation last week or two weeks ago, or whenever we kind of hit on this point of like, Hey, we should discuss this is that now I have that in my awareness and I get to be a better coach because I now have an understanding that when we, we talk about visualization, which is a huge piece of it that everyone sees it differently and then needs to process it differently, which I did, you know, I was aware of that piece.

It was the visual piece that I, because it is so picture show in my head, it’s like a movie screen pops up and I’m like, oh, there’s everybody, there’s all the cast and characters and all the things. And you’re like, yeah, no. 

Katie: Yeah, not at all, but I love that. Like, I’ve always been so in awe of people who could do that and that have that capability and you over the years have shared with me so many different visions that you’ve had enough.

That’s amazing. I don’t do that at all. Like I, can I, again, I can conceptualize something based on something I’ve seen before. So for me, and I think all of our brains work this way to a certain extent as well. So while you can see it and while most people can visualize, the problem happens when we get to action and we, you and I just have had many conversations over the years of my pet peeve, but like think it, and it will appear, you know, like this whole law of attraction thing, which I love I do.

I love the law of attraction. I believe that that is a part of the equation, but I also believe in action. That’s why I named my business momentum. It’s why I talk about creating daily momentum. It is like that. Things actually happen is when you take your intention and you pair it with action. So the whole thing about being able to visualize it is wonderful, but where people get stuck or where they end up on a treadmill, if they don’t take the daily action to back it up, to make that vision come to fruition, to break down the steps into a place where they can tangibly move forward and see it happening.

KammieK: And adding onto that, it’s, it’s breaking down, which when you’re saying the lists and you pull the pieces in that way, so you’re sort of like, co-leading it, or pulling it into the order, to the fake it till you make it, kind of thing. Cause I know there’s, you know, debates on both sides of that or acting from the wish.

You have to take those action steps once you’ve figured out what those action steps are. Right. So one it’s figuring out what those action steps are to some sort of order of first, right. And then stepping into the feeling space And this is the, I mean, I haven’t even touched on this in the, in this podcast yet.

I haven’t had an episode yet. The quantum field and that whole conversation, because for me now where I am, I can connect to multi, like again, visual, if there were a fan of Kammie heads that all looks slightly different than the one you’re looking at right now. They’re all right here too. And I have access to those versions of me who have gone on potential reality threads and done the things that I think I want to do.

So the cool part about that, which we won’t go down the quantum rabbit hole too hardcore. Cause it can get like where are we was happening? 

Katie: Okay. But I want to sometimes.

KammieK: So there are infinite numbers of MES running off in different dimensions, doing thing, any idea that we have of like, Hmm, this one, right.

Might be cool to do a podcast it’s brewing. It’s bringing us bring there’s versions of me that went off and did it faster than I did. And I have access to those versions of me and can say, I need a download. What are those next steps? And that’s again, tied into intuition when we think it’s an intuition, it’s just, oh, it just poof popped in.

Oh, it popped in because there’s another version of you. Who’s done the thing. And if you connect to it and ask it for guidance, it will give it to you. I know that sounds like far out, but that… 

Katie: well, can I say for anybody who feels like that’s far out, it doesn’t matter what you believe and how it comes to you?

That the fact of the matter is we’ve all experienced intuition in our own ways. So whether you, whether that’s too far out for somebody’s brain, who’s listening or not. The fact is, if you ask for the guidance, if you ask for the understanding of how it’s going to happen, you will get the answer if you’re open enough to it.

KammieK: Yes. 

Katie: No matter how it comes. 

KammieK: And that back to the whole earlier part of our conversation of doing the work clearing out your shit, doing shadow work, because you can’t hear it. If there’s all this other shit in the way, and that includes junk food, TV, junk food music, all, all the crappy ish for your soul.

Getting hung up in drama with friends and family and all that stuff is all noise and distraction. And that isn’t going to get you to this fantasy ish life that you may somewhat think you want or projects you want to step into, or you want to move to another country. Like all those things you got to work on, getting all that ick out, get grounded, then you can tune in and ask for the guidance wherever you believe that guidance is coming from.

Right? Because I, I feel like there is also the universe, God source, creator, whatever you want to call it. There’s that connection too. There’s ancestral connections. But again, that those things all essentially are in the quantum field as well. You know, we, don’t just, this is a 3d thing that we’re in here, but there are so much going on behind the scenes of what we can see energetically that we’re connected to 24 7.

We just were never taught that. 

Katie: Right. Well, I think the, I think some of the common beliefs around that for people who feel like they’re blocked in some way are other people can have. But I can’t. Yeah. They’re gifted in that way, but I’m not. It’s, the timing is off. Yeah. I think that there’s a lot of layers there.

I also think that in some ways that can be true. However, where we need to understand things is that this is an innate tool that is available to anyone. And if we could have one and it doesn’t take special education, it doesn’t take special work. It doesn’t take any of that other than an openness and the ability to get quiet and listen.

KammieK: Right.

Katie: And we all have access to that. 

KammieK: Yes. 

Katie: And so when we can get quiet and listen, and to some people, and again, with the different ways that we all learn. Whether it is meditation, whether it is journaling, some I’m a verbal processor. I need to talk things out with somebody to hear it. I’m so audio.

And I need to hear it, whether it’s myself saying it or somebody reflecting it back to me in order to get the clarity on how I want to move forward. And then I have to write it down so that I can see it. So I have to have that two-part process. So learning what way you need to receive the messages in order to move forward, to figure out your process for then knowing the action to implement is key.

Yes. So sometimes it’s a combination, sometimes it’s one thing, and I know you teach people all about receiving messages and the different ways we can do that, which I think is so, so important in terms of a message. And so knowing that then you can begin to ask the right questions, which are all about what is it that you really want?

And you don’t have to have the big picture. This is another thing that always came up in career coaching. For me, with my clients. You don’t have to have the big picture of what the company is, what the role is, that none of that actually matters. What matters is, what are your passions and what are your skills and what kind of environment do you want to be in ?

So you’re on those three things and you can go forward and start to open doors. So that the right thing shows up for you. 

KammieK: Yeah. I’ve shared examples about that kind of scenario. When when I was career coaching, MBA students at ASU, you know, one came in to me one day and was like, oh my God, I’m lit up about consulting.

And I was like, cool. What do you know about consulting? Well, they make a lot of money. Oh yeah. Well, they do. And do you know what is required of consultants that typically they hop on a plane on a Sunday and fly to their client’s location and they’re there till Thursday or Friday. And then they get to go home recharge, do their laundry, and then hop on a plane again on Sunday.

You just said that you recently got married and you guys were trying to have a baby. Right. And he was like, yeah. And I was like, dude, do you not want to be home for that? You know, do you want to be a road warrior? Because that’s what that entails typically. Right. And he was like, oh, so, you know, really understanding lifestyle.

What do you want your life to look like? And that’s where the overlap is between the life and the career coaching piece, where it’s like, you know, career coaching is one thing. But if you don’t factor in someone’s whole life and their values and what they want to create. Not to mention how they want to dress.

Right. Like some people, oh, I want it. It’s like, you’re going to be really like professionally dressed there and you like to dress casual and wear flip flops. So that might not be a fit for you. You know? So just the app those environmental pieces too. I don’t think people think too much. About one resource also I wanted to share I know we use it a little bit is the Marco polo app and why I love that as a coaching tool to. I, it finally came to me like after a year, when I moved from Phoenix and came up here to Prescott, a friend of mine. And I like every day when we were in our cars, on our commutes, would Marco polo each other back and forth.

And that was our way of like catching up with each other and here’s, what’s going on. And I’m on my way here. And I did this and this and this and this, but also, you know, you rant a little bit or you share. And then sometimes I started watching the video back and I was like hearing myself, talk to myself.

So you’re on the screen, looking at yourself. But you’re leaving a message for your friend, but really you’re having a conversation with yourself. And so that’s kind of a really beautiful thing is to be able to go, oh, I hear what I just said there again, you know, almost like a live journal kind of thing. Where you would look back through a journal and go, wow, look, how many years I’ve been talking about this thread?

You know, this thing is consistently popping up over the years. And the video is very similar in that, that you get to see like, oh it wasn’t, I just on a tangent about this two months ago, and it’s still not still talking about.

Katie: So yeah, if you ever sound like a broken record, that’s the problem. And I, you know, I have gotten myself to places where I’m like, oh my gosh, I can’t even stand to hear myself talk because I’m complaining about the same thing again.

And I don’t want to say it anymore. Like I don’t want to be in that space. And so that’s where I think we have to stop and drop into our actions and our words aligned. Because if our words are saying one thing and our actions are going a different direction, you’re never going to reach the goal you’re looking for.

KammieK: Yeah. And you lived, you and I have been friends through, you know, and I want to share personal information because I want people to know that, you know, we walk our talk too, right. I mean, I was in an on-again off-again super toxic situation for like 12 years, maybe even longer. And you were friends with me during it.

And it got to the point where like, I’m sick of hearing myself talk about this, you know, because my friends could only reflect back and hold space for me for so long before they were like, girlfriend, you said the last time this cycle happened, you were out. And now you’re back in. So WTF is up, you know?

And so I’m so grateful I had you and loving people as mirrors, but it does, it gets to that point, you know, and sometimes it just takes iterating through it. Which there’s similarities with businesses too, right? Where it’s like, well, it still looks like I’m in this thing, but I’m doing it a little different and a little different and a little different.

And then all of a sudden you’re like, poof, something clicks. It’s like the you know, the gears just fall into alignment. And then it’s like, oh, this isn’t a thing anymore. I don’t have to do this ever again. I’m on the other side. 

Katie: Yeah. The universe gives you that kick in the pants out and it makes the decision for you.

And it’s like, I’m tired of hearing you talk. So that’s why people lose their jobs all of a sudden. And you know, I mean, I know for me I stayed and so that graphic design job I had, I stayed part-time for quite a few years after just kind of building part-time income, having that safety net. And I was so scared, and this is a pattern for me in my life.

Like when it’s time to leave, when it’s time to finish something I hold on for too long. And so I held on and held on and held on until my boss was like… We can’t keep you on anymore. Sorry. And it was time, but I was so scared to put in my notice and leave a second time because I did it once and he talked me into staying, which was great for me and for him.

But I was frustrated at the time that a couple of years later, I mean, I was ready to go. I was done, but I wasn’t willing to let go. And so circumstances happened and boom, I was out on my own and like trying to tread water cause I hadn’t fully prepared my words and my actions were saying two different things.

My actions were not preparing me for full-time business, where my words were saying, that’s what I wanted. So when it happened, I floundered more than I should have because I wasn’t really ready. Even though I kept saying I was.

KammieK: Well, that jump in that transition is a scary one. I mean, I’m still, full-time employed and I’ve given myself a date, you know, in my mind where I want to get this all up and running and I’ve given myself a lot of runway, but you know, the universe may have other plans for me.

We’ll see. I don’t know what that looks like, and I’m just stepping into it and I have, I’m holding my intention and it feels good to finally be an action because I have talked about some of these things for a very long time. But the beauty of that too, and what I wanted to comment on what you said, like you held onto it for too long.

I do also believe there is a divine right. Timing to things. And so while it felt like, cause, cause I think you and I are similar and it’s like, we want to be there. Like we want to go from here to there now. Yes. And nobody will do, right. It’s like, I want to do the thing. And it’s like, you can’t really skip steps and there’s different lessons for everyone to be learning throughout those things.

Right. And so there’s something that you got from holding on a little too long and the next iteration of that, whenever that appears in your life in whatever way, that appears, maybe you won’t. Because you’ve now gained that valuable information of like, Hm I’m wasting time or losing time, or a perception of time or perception of losing time, whatever.

Yeah. So I do also think there’s a beautiful sort of dance, even when it doesn’t feel lovely, it feels real crunchy sometimes and can be painful. But yeah. 

Katie: Well, and so I love how this conversation keeps leading back and forth from what we even started with to now, it was those cycles of the dark moments where we’re in our shadow selves. We don’t know what we’re doing. We feel lost. We question ourselves our, you know, critic, our inner critic is screaming so loud. We can’t hear anything else. Those are the moments where we learn the most about ourselves. We want to be in the light moments all the time. We want to be in the spaces where it feels easy and free all the time, but that’s not actually where we learn.

That’s where we coast. And so these moments that bring out our shadow selves are an appealing way of another layer. And then like you were talking about putting it on the whiteboard and erasing it. That’s where we cycle through again. So the next time we’re in that shadow self, it’s easier because we recognize it.

We know it’s here. We understand it. We can move through it faster. We can explore it. Without fear per se. There may be fear there, but we’re not scared of it because we recognize that it’s there and then we can make progress further, faster, easier. The next time around.

KammieK: I liken it a lot to levels in a video game because you’re at this level and you have cycles and iterations and you have these tools and this skillset, and it’s like, oh man, I just want to get to the next level next level. And you get to the next level. And it’s like, you’re a beginner, but you also have all of the stuff that you learned at the last level. Right? So you’re a beginner at this level.

So you have new tools and you’re, you’ve got the strengths that you built up here, but like, it looks really different. The landscape is different. It’s unfamiliar. You’re like where the FMI, holy shit, can I do this imposter syndrome, all the things. Right. And then it gets real crunchy. And it’s like, which is where I am.

Again, you know, I can feel that glass ceiling is there. And then it’s like, okay, it’s crunchy like this. And it’s like, it feels like it’s vibrating like this, right. Because I’m about to launch into that next level again. And then boom, I’m a beginner again in so many ways yet. Now I have everything that I learned in these… jumanji we’re just all in Jumanji. 

Katie: You know, I see this every day I have a nine month old. Right. And you know, this my daughter, I see this everyday with her, she’s learning so much right now. Like I watch her, she takes these, you know, we feed her puffs sometimes. And so I’ve watched her over the last month, take that little puff and it gets stuck right here in her hand.

Like that little heel part in her hand, it’s supposed to be in between your fingers. It gets stuck down here and she moves it to her mouth and it falls down onto her lap. Right. Cause she can’t get it there. And I watched her frustrated, like it’s supposed to be in my mouth, like that snack was supposed to go into my mouth.

I don’t understand. And then she plays with it and she works in, she works at, she works at, and now she can take those little puffs, like a little champ and put them in between her fingers and put them straight into her mouth because she gets it now and crawling. And now we’re working on walking, you know, like she is a rock star with figuring these things out.

And it’s really made me think back to beginner brain of like, think about all the skills we have learned and mastered in our life. All of those tiny little things we’ve had to do to be functional adults today, much less entrepreneurs or in a career. And the skills we’ve learned in those spaces think about all of the things that we have had to master to get to where we are accessing your intuition, creating a vision, stepping into a new career, starting a business.

These are all things that you can do, but they take time. They take practice. It was the same with rock climbing. I used to bring people climbing with me and they would expect to be great at it. They won. 

KammieK: I would probably have been that. Yeah, I would have been so frustrated. I’d be like, I’m out, I’ll be over here waiting.

Katie: I was going to take you rock climbing one time, one visit. I think we did it. 

KammieK: I remember we went hiking in Arizona when you came. 

Katie: We did do that. That was fun. I remember that it was hot. 

But yeah, I, you know, all of these things take time. It takes energy. And I used to talk about this a lot. There’s a I deemed it the middleman syndrome.

So when I used to climb and I used to teach people and bring them in, they would be like, I could never do what you do. You’re so brave. I see you on those rocks. Like I could never do that. And I would look at them and be like, of course you, of course you can. If I could do it like shy, introverted, always questioning myself katie. Would come out of my shell and learn how to scale the size of these mountains. You can do anything. And I would be like, you should see the people I climb with. They’re crazy. Like the stuff they do is amazing. And then I would talk to them and I would hear the same thing coming back at me. No, you can totally do this.

You should see. So, and so they’re crazy. And I realized no matter where we are in life, We are always in the middleman position. We are always in this space where somebody is above us doing more, and somebody is theoretically below us learn, trying to get to where we are trying to learn. So our job is to always be helping that next person take the next step up and then asking for what we need in order to step up first.

KammieK: Totally. I just use that analogy in a conversation. Yeah. The ladder is coming through. Right. Like it is sort of, but then I also think like, is the ladder that way or is it like more, you know, which way is the ladder really? And why am I proceeding? 

Katie: I do love the way your mind works.

KammieK: It’s sometimes I’m like, why, what, but exactly. I just said exactly that, like, to me, it feels like it’s my responsibility to share, you know, which is like, again, back to the intention of even doing this. It’s like, I remember in those ’04, ’05 years where I was like looking for information and it was so all over the place. And now it’s almost the opposite where there’s like so much information and so many people and like who who’s legit and who’s not legit.

And so I was like, I just want to be able to like open up a portal and like share information and wherever those seeds land you know, however, people get exposed to things that they can go on their own rabbit holes, you know? So yeah, I’m so glad that I feel like we just like rounded it, put a bow on it and we just got right back.

 And I so appreciate you sharing all of your personal insights and your business insights and the vision piece is so huge. And it’s, I’ve been thinking nonstop about that. I even wrote in the well I’m wearing moons, which some, a little looks like an eye, but I wrote a little eye down on my notebook before we had this conversation.

And I was just like, oh my gosh, I just can’t wait to get into this. And so it was such a juicy conversation. So maybe, and I’ll put it in the show notes, but maybe also share where people can find you where they can connect with you online. And we’ll make sure we put all the links in the show notes and all that.

Katie: Yeah, great. So people can find me online at or on Instagram at momentum underscore coach and any other links to other places can be found there as well, just to put those two for now, because of course we’re all in a million places online at this point. But I just, I always love our conversations Kammie.

I think we always go to the coolest depths and thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me on. It was so fun. 

KammieK: You’re so welcome. And I wanted to also give you just a little space. If you have a program or anything like that’s like that you’re wanting to share and put out there where beyond, obviously we know your links, people can go to your links, but if there’s anything that you want to also share or give a plug to, now’s the time.

Katie: Yeah. So thank you. The big thing that I just launched that I said was like, totally fear-inducing one to just shut the whole thing down and run away. But at the end of the day, I’m so excited about it. I needed to let the fear step in so that I could step through it. And like, it’s been fascinating to watch it slowly dissolve as I have stepped in.

Cause when we up-level, right. It’s like requesting that we step up and step out confidently and all of ourselves. And sometimes that can feel really naked. . I’m super excited about this. This is a brand new way that I’m launching things. It’s a little bit of a result of having my daughter and just trying to streamline my time.

But it’s also at the request of so many of my clients who have asked for this. So it’s called the daily momentum business collective, and it’s basically a think tank for my Uber passionate entrepreneurs. You may be multi-passionate, you’ve probably been in business for like one to three years. You’ve hit the low hanging fruit or you’re just beginning.

So you’ve either just begun and you’re looking for clients or you’ve hit that low hanging fruit of your peers, your friends. And now you’re wondering how do I grow? And so this is an online collective space where we get together. We share ideas, you get personal coaching from me and I have various levels of support available so that if you want one-on-one time versus group time, there is an option for you.

KammieK: Yeah, I love it. And I’m going to be hopping in because I want some more added accountability layers. Well, and it’s because I’m, you know, I’m at that place where it’s like, I’ve done the thing. Like I know how to do coaching and or whatever that looks like creating content, creating programs and courses. I mean, hell I’ve written courses for ASU and grand canyon university and Lindenwood and all the schools I’ve ever worked at workshops, all the things.

Right. And so that was the other piece. Like over the years I’ve been like, wait I’m doing this for all these other organizations. I can do this for myself, but it’s different when you’re creating curriculum. That’s already, you know, like here’s the, you know, here’s PR 300, reconstruct this and break it down and online learning platforms and all the things. It’s different when it’s your own processes, because I had to kind of go down and then break down how I do what I do, because sometimes I just do it.

So that’s been fun, but the whole like machine behind how all of these things come together and how do you monetize and all of the systems and all that stuff is new. And I just have such more of an admiration for you and all of the other people who have been diligently working, I mean, I’ve watched you put this work in year after year after year after year.

And I understand why more people either start and then stop or don’t even start because it is so much work because you’re also at the beginning initially are like head marketer and systems analyst and customers service, and you know, all of the things, and there are so many moving parts and pieces and the marketplace is so saturated and, you know, depending on what your niche might be in these types of fields.

So I’m excited to hop in to the collective because it’s going to help me refine inner space camp, the multiple iterations of that, whatever that ends up looking like down the road. But how do I then, you know, continue with the podcast. And I have art products that I want to put out and like, how do all these multi-passionate pieces fit together?

So I’m excited to get in there and get the boost from that. 

Katie: And then so excited that you’re joining me. I mean, being an entrepreneur feels so personal sometimes, and yes, you can do these things for other people. Entrepreneurs always tell me always, always, always, oh my gosh, I did this for other people.

I’ve done this all these years, but now that I’m doing it, yeah. It’s a totally different ball game. And you learn, you will learn the depth of your wisdom. You will learn the depths of what you have to share. And then I’m really excited because we just started putting into play. And again, this was by request from my members, which I just loved them.

We are putting an implementation day, so we’re having guest experts and we’re having implementation workshops. So that you’re actually going to do the thing where whining, words and action, which. So I love that.

KammieK: Well, and what I love about that too, is one more point to being a newbie on the business side of it.

Like the execution of the business is the group and meeting other people who are in different iterations of their own businesses and having that support, but also just being able to hear like other people have gone through these things. And there’s just something about having a community that I’m excited about as well, because you know, we’re on the zooms all the time and not everyone is like networking out and connecting.

And even in your local town, you may not connect. There may not be like-minded or similar types of businesses or whatever, you know, you just want to, you want to vibe with the people that are in alignment with where you’re at. And so I’m excited to also have that piece of it. So just chipping away at these little pieces as I go along and I’m ready for this next.

Katie: So excited. I’m so excited to have you, and I can’t wait to see where all this goes and I love the interspace practices you’re creating. 

KammieK: Yeah, I, you know, so, I’m excited to flesh those out in this program, but also then how I’m going to break it down into more digestible pieces for other people in other ways.

And there’s a couple of conferences even that are looking for types, like, cause it kind of falls in line with self-care too. And I’m like, oh yeah, I go do this as a, you know, as a one hour presentation at a thing. And then that leads to all the things. So I’m always the brain is always spinning.

Katie: I love it. 

KammieK: Well, thank you for sharing so much. Oh my gosh. Look well right at the time, look at that thinked up. Exactly. Thanks for spending time and sharing your magic with me. I love you so much and I can’t wait to share this out with the world. 

Katie: Good. Thank you so much. I love you too! 

KammieK: I hope you enjoyed this juicy conversation with Katie Mattson Craig, and that you gained some insights about your own vision for your life, career or business.

As she mentioned in the episode, Katie recently launched the daily momentum business collective, a think tank for entrepreneurs and multi-passionate preneurs who are seeking a group to collaborate with and help them grow their businesses on line in the collective space. So everyone can share ideas and gain various levels of support, including one-on-one and group coaching from Katie.

Be sure to check out all of Katie’s programs at or follow along on Instagram. She is momentum underscore coach over on Instagram. And just a reminder that if you do want to dive deeper into clarifying your inner space best practices two, please hop on over to because cosmics inner space camp registration is now open. You can find it at Head on over and sign up. If this is something that you need more support with, and if you enjoyed this episode of the cosmetics interspace podcast, please leave a review on apple podcasts or share this episode with a friend.

I want to stay more connected with you. So please be sure to follow me on Instagram at KammieKDotCom, where I share a whole lot more cosmetics vibes on Insta stories. And I am. At KammieKDotCom on Facebook. And of course we can always stay connected via the cosmetics interspace mothership over on the blog at

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